Curse

Miteshu · Mar 17, 2011, 08:42 PM // 20:42

So I am running Barrage Ranger.

And my question is this, Which one would be the better IAS?

Dwarven Stability + Lightning Reflexes vs. Frenzy.

Asia Skyly · Mar 17, 2011, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Drunken Master + booze

Rites · Mar 17, 2011, 09:36 PM // 21:36

IAS doesnt help barragers, at least not to my knowledge

Asia Skyly · Mar 17, 2011, 09:54 PM // 21:54

It does. Your bow attacks will be faster. It will not help with the SKILL barrage, but the in between shots will be faster.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Attack_speed

Miteshu · Mar 17, 2011, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asia Skyly

Drunken Master + booze

Not sure if this is satire or not, but it does sound impressive.

Fay Vert · Mar 17, 2011, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Depends what bow you use. IAS helps the slow bows but can even be detrimental to the fast bows.

Rites · Mar 17, 2011, 11:36 PM // 23:36

ok, lemme be a lil more specific

most barrage builds are based off of spamming barrage 75 - 90% of the time. the use of other bow skills ie.. interrupts usually in my opinion does not warrant the use of an IAS

Now if you are only going to use barrage once or twice, then personally i would not waste the elite slot for it, just use incendiary arrows (target + 2 near) instead thus usage of an IAS would not be a waste

ignite arrows + incendiary arrows + splinter from a hero is better than barrage and you can have an IAS

Asia Skyly · Mar 17, 2011, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miteshu

Not sure if this is satire or not, but it does sound impressive.

It is not satire. I actually use it as a "compressed" bar skill. Increase in movement + increase in attack speed. You have to:

1. Get it in EotN
2. Be drunk for the effect to actually validate using the skill.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Drunken_master

In relation to barrage, I think Rites makes a solid argument.

HigherMinion · Mar 18, 2011, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Barrage isn't that good unless you're with a friend or pug team with someone using Great Dwarf Weapon on you. You'll be the best defence in your team by far.

Rites · Mar 18, 2011, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Barrage isn't that good unless you're with a friend or pug team with someone using Great Dwarf Weapon on you. You'll be the best defence in your team by far.

not completely true.... though i do admit barrage bars are quite limited

theres always elemental barrage + IAtS + splinter (from hero)

theres even a cripple barrager (barrage + harrier's grasp)

and i'm sure there are other combos out there, but what it boils down to is that you need support from your heros for barrage to be worthwhile

Chthon · Mar 18, 2011, 03:32 AM // 03:32

1. Rangers have no good IAS options. LR+DS costs 2 slots, including a PvE slot, and still lacks 100% uptime. NRA costs 2 slots, including a PvE slot, and a ton of energy, and is only 25% IAS. DM costs booze and turning off post-processing effects. Frenzy costs way more energy than you can afford. Everything else is even worse. Take your pick.

2. IAS benefits Barrage builds, but not very much. First, if you are firing off Barrage as often as possible, you'll never have time to complete an auto-attack in between Barrages, even at 33%IAS. Second, because IAS does not decrease Barrage's recharge, you only get the fractional benefit from the IAS applied to the part of the activation that comes before the arrow is released. (The recharge starts when the arrow is released.) The net result is that enough IAS to reduce your attack time to 2.0sec is generally enough for Barrage; below that, the returns are quite diminished. (Which is actually an argument in favor on no-booze DM for certain bow types.)

3. Yes, Barrage is not particularly great, however it's still the best general-purpose build available to rangers because everything else is even worse. Sad but true: rangers are a badly underpowered class in need of a serious overhaul.

Wenspire · Mar 18, 2011, 03:54 AM // 03:54

NRA+DM = 33%IAS, +15% Movement, +3 health regen and 100% maintainable. Downside is that it takes 2 PvE slots and a pet so 3 slots.

Kunder · Mar 18, 2011, 04:50 AM // 04:50

IAS only really helps hornbow barragers, which are bad in the first place. 10% armor penetration might SEEM good since enemies have high armor in HM, but its actually weaker as enemies go up in armor because your base bow damage is going down. It turns out to be like 1 extra damage per shot or thereabouts IIRC, not worth an entire skill slot (especially a PvE one) to make up for the slower fire rate.

Xenomortis · Mar 18, 2011, 11:58 AM // 11:58

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hornbow
Hornbows do more DPS than Recurve and Longbows from 70 armour.
Flatbows and Shortbows do more all the way up to 180 armour.

As you add damage boosts though, hornbows fall. Unless you run Quick Shot.

Kunder · Mar 18, 2011, 03:44 PM // 15:44

The problem is that +damage boosts are everywhere, and they are the only thing worthwhile in PvE since they are armor ignoring. Just vamp on the bow makes hornbows inferior. Nevermind that against half of all PvE enemies the +damage from Barrage itself is doing more than the base bow damage.

Rites · Mar 19, 2011, 01:53 AM // 01:53

i haven't used a hornbow in a while, i found recurve bows more to my liking. and yes i know that i could probably use another bow with better efficiency, but the recurve works just fine for my taste

Fay Vert · Mar 19, 2011, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Bring more than one bow!!

Miteshu · Mar 19, 2011, 12:57 PM // 12:57

I think we're getting off topic.

As for Drunken Master, it is inferior to LR.

-I don't really need IMS due to staying still and pressing 1-1-1-1
-DM doesn't have 75% blocking chance.
-DM requires you to distort your screen, which will be very annoying.
-I don't need IMS stances for running around because I already have dual Fall Back heroes.

HigherMinion · Mar 19, 2011, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miteshu

I think we're getting off topic.

As for Drunken Master, it is inferior to LR.

-I don't really need IMS due to staying still and pressing 1-1-1-1
-DM doesn't have 75% blocking chance.
-DM requires you to distort your screen, which will be very annoying.
-I don't need IMS stances for running around because I already have dual Fall Back heroes.

1.agree
2.as you assume you have Dual Fall Back, can I assume your whole party are bonded with Protective Bond and therefore don't need 75% block?
3.You can turn off Post-Processing effects, meaning it doesn't require you to distort your screen.
4.You don't need to rely on your party to give you your IMS if you have DM.

Miteshu · Mar 19, 2011, 01:33 PM // 13:33

2. Yes, but the necro needs the energy to use discord and his minions.
4. True, but I still feel DM is inferior because I already have the needs from DM + 75% block. Although LR + DS waste two slots, I already have trouble filling up my Ranger because some skills are too energy intensive, or they work only for the one hit. (EBSoH, IatS.)